Stalled (?) ART

Hello everyone, I've been having great success creating spawn from LC to both RGS and Millet. I've had a few failed attempts so far after the spawn to bulk stage and Id really like some input. This particular substrate is in 1:1:.01 Coco/ Dung / Gypsum (PC for 2hrs in bags). Mix is roughly 3:1 with 3.285lb spawn to 10lb substrate in a "Boomr Bin" from North Spore. I colonized for exactly 3 weeks at about 75f and at that point it seemed almost to stall so i went ahead and put it into fruit. I'd say colonization was at about 60-70%. I'm on 12/12 light and I remove the lid daily for FAE and all the openings have been replaced with filters.

This is at one week of fruiting and I'm just not sure I'm on the right track. I feel I'm not differentiating between mycelium growth and whispy molds.

I don't want to throw this away if it's just a matter of waiting.

thank you so much.

Just wanted to add that the black spots are substrate.

Hello!

I've checked your cake and fortunately, I don't see any signs of mold. So don't worry about it

The only questionable area is here - a tiny circle in the top left corner (see the red circle in the attached photo)

Could you pls take a photo closer? I need to double check it to make sure it's healthy.

And show me pls your fruiting chamber

here's a close up of the top left and the whole chamber. Thanks!

It's fine from that angle, but... I still can't see the texture of that small patch in details :-(

I need a close photo of the exact circle (perpendicularly) or like this photo example

What should you do next?

1. FAE - yes!

2. Skip misting at all for the next 4 days! Don't mist the tub unless the walls are almost dry. Avoid misting on mycelium, mist the walls only!

3. Show me your cake and tub in 3-4 days. I'll check it again. Okay?

That's it!

Oh, and ofc, it needs some time and your patience ;-)

Excellent thank you I'll be sure to vent and not spray the next few days. I'll try to get a better photo of that spot, also.

here's top left corner, top right corner, and full subatrate as of today.

i seem to me having issues loading more than one photo at a time, here's top right:

The questionable area is fine so far 👌

Don't mist the tub!

And try to avoid water pools on the mycelium!!!

excellent thank you! haven't misted. unfortunately i did get some water when it dripped off the lid while doing FAE. Is it worth trying to dab that water off with a clean paper towel or would that just risk contamination?

conversely I could also blow it around and at least distribute it a bit.

thanks again for your help!

You can use a paper towel to absorb water pools. Just be gentle pls!

No! Don't blow/fan the mycelium!

In order to avoid water dripping from the lid use WD-40 trick -> find a paragraph WD-40 trick in this write up

https://shroomok.com/en/wiki/Bacterial_brown_blotch_disease_on_mushrooms

Great information, thank you.

I've got sodium hypochlorite ordered and already have WD40 on hand.

Side note: many people dont realize that "WD" actually stands for "water displacement", and it was the 40th itteration in the product development.

I wonder if products like RainX or ceramic paint products would have a similar effect?

So interesting! I had no idea about that WD-40 fact. Thanks for sharing 👍

I assume any product with silicone or wax should work. I haven't try them though. So you can test and share your experience ;-)

Good news, I've got pins forming!

I'm assuming i was spraying too often/keeping the humidity too high. before?

Hooray, so nice!

I think the cake just needed more time. It's been about 2 weeks since fruiting conditions, and it's absolutely on track. Some strains take much longer.

Could you tell me what strain it is? It looks like one of the Albino strains.

Maybe you'll get blob-like mutated shrooms (see Mutations), but they're safe to harvest. So, we'll see within the next few days.

Keep me updated pls :-)

Sure is! Albino Rip Tide. Its taking off so far; this is today:

and another:

Pins look great 🔥🔥🔥

A few here with black caps are most likely aborts (see Aborts), but it's absolutely fine

Understood! I read all the abort information. I'd imagine it's due to the density in that area. Everything looking great so far.

Thanks again for the help along the way!

Yep, it's absolutely normal to have some aborts in such a big cluster.

Now pins look so cool!

Please, share more photos. I love watch them grow day by day. This is the most exciting period in growing 🤩

Definitely the most entertaining part so far!

Woo-hoo 🤍🥳🔥

Thank you!

Here's today!

Soooo nice! Thanks for the update 🤩

I'm curious how one could keep humidity lower in a relatively sealed container? I imagine that would only be possible with relativly constant FAE by means of controlled fan? I thought my digital thermometer/hygrometer was malfunction but it of course has a slight delay in reading so it's not constantly fluctuating.

I imagine a very slow fan speed over a filter cold create a somewhat linear FAE and potentially maintain a lower RH?

Here's today.

Beauties 🔥🔥🔥
Waiting for more updates ;-)

Why do you need to lower the humidity? Your tub and your shrooms are absolutely fine in this kind of environment.

If you have air vents, it’s not a sealed environment, and there are natural air currents going through the vents and they work properly. That’s much better than using a fan! Usually, growers end up with drying issues and mycelium bruising when they use fans.

Here’s an example in this thread: Probably failed grow?

Understood. I'm definitely happy with how everything is going, just wondering if lowering humidity is better for fine tuning, as it seems to be widely recommended for fruiting.

Here's today, looking great!

whoops, here's the photo:

Whoop whoop 🤩

When you reduce humidity it increases water evaporation from the cake, which promotes pinning. So you're right, that's make sense ;-)

However, excessive evaporation and extra fanning can dry out the substrate and mycelium. As a result, we won't get pins at all!

Even if the humidity in the tub is high, sometimes it still needs a little misting to reduce evaporation and moisture loss.

So you need to maintain balanced environment all the time. A relative humidity of 85–90% is good during the pinning period (for the first week). After that, you can slightly increase it to 90–95% during the active fruiting phase to help preserve more moisture in the substrate for mushroom development. As you know, mushrooms are about 90% water, so they need it during active phase of growth!

If you’d like to monitor the basic parameters you can buy a simple hygrometer. Usually it comes with a thermometer. Something like this would be fine Amazon

Ok perfect. I should be fine as it seems I'm staying between 95-99.

I've got some that seem to be opening up, early.

Should I pick the ones that have the veil opened or just wait on everything else?

I've read that this strain doesn't really drop spores like most do.

Looking good!

Looking great!

You can pick already some of them with opened caps, no problem. Albino strains do produce spores, but they are white or transparent

Here's today, and a bonus photo of RGS getting ready for another tub. ;)

Nice! Some shrooms look a lil bit dry, but it's fine for this 1st flush. The next flush after rehydration will be way better ;-)

The jar is ready to go 👍 What is RGS strain abbr?

It's Albino Penis Envy "Rye Grain Spawn" 👌

Oh, okay! Thanks for clarification. This RGS abbr is smth new to me lol How's your RipTide growing today? 🙌

At least this is still doing well!

I'd harvest them ALL already. They are starting drying out, so it's better to pick them all now and soak the cake in cold water for 2-4 hrs to initiate a new flush

Check out: Rehydration

Sounds good. I'll do that tonight and update.

Since i didn't have a casing later on this one. would it be a good idea to add it after rehydrating?

Sure, you can add a thin casing layer about 5-10mm or 1/3 inch after soaking and reapply it after each harvesting-soaking cycle

It's super beneficial! More here: Casing and here How soil pH affect Trichoderma

Waiting for harvest update ;-)

Did 4hrs ice water soak and then light ph'd casing layer. Day 2:

Thinking ahead to next time: is the uneven distribution due to incomplete colonization from the beginning or some other factor? I feel I've read about people using casing on areas that first show colonization in order to get even coverage Also, they were all very small fruits. What can I do to allow them to grow larger? I anticipate the second flush will be very different due to the fact that the hydration process will more perfectly set the proper moisture level. Ive been incubating in the 22-26c range and fruiting 20-22c.

Day 3: definitely seeing some action around the edge!

What was your casing recipe? Looking good, but maybe too much vermiculite. It's not a problem tho. Keep me updated as it grows

Btw, how much mushrooms have you harvested from the 1st flush? Did you weight them?

Regarding your questions and some work on mistakes:

1. 22-26C range for incubation and 20-22C for fruiting are absolutely fine

2. before mixing spawn with coco substrate (spawn to bulk (S2B) step) make sure the grain jar/bag is fully colonized. It means fully covered with white mycelium. If you have bald areas -> just remove them and don't use for S2B at all!

Yes, you can toss uncolonized areas :-) Never use bald grain for the next step!

4. when you mix grain spawn with bulk substrate try to distribute grain evenly, don't afraid to mix it well or create even layers one by one: bulk -> grain -> bulk -> grain -> bulk layer at the top ~1cm to cover ALL grains. You shouldn't see grains on the top and the cake should be perfectly flat, without bumps

5. press the cake! (not too hard, not too light). We need good connection between 2 types of substrate. The cake shouldn't be loose or airy and without gaps around the walls of the tub and in the corners at the very beginning.

6. field capacity (aka moisture level) of the bulk substrate is crucial for this step! If it's too dry it's always a huge problem further on

7. you can add casing layer when the top layer is 90% colonized and provide fruiting conditions right away

Also check out this write up with photo examples and field capacity test: Spawn to Bulk & Casing

Why your shrooms so small (and also look dry)? Your cake is dehydrated + possibly genetics itself. Dehydration is the main issue tho, that triggers genetics as well.

Anyway, you made it! Congrats on your first harvest from this cake and this grow! Well done 👏

The next flush and the next attempt will be way better ;-)

Was it your very first growing experience?

Wow thanks for all the information!

For casing In used this first recipe: https://shroomok.co.uk/amazon-kits/casing-layer-ingredients

• peat moss (aka sphagnum) - 2 cups

• vermiculite - 1 cup

• hydrated lime - 1 tablespoon

• water - 1 cup

I guess field capacity can be a bit subjective so I've been erring on the said of caution and going less rather than what I thought may be more water. I'll go for a higher water saturation from here on out. This is definitely my first attempt, ever!

While the first flush was pretty unimpressive (<40g, dry), I'm liking forward to what this one will yield.

I have another tub colonizing with Albino Penis Envy, as well as some less complicated strains on the way (Z strain, MVP).

I think I may have addressed where some of my previous contamination was coming from (I've probably had 4 attempts I had to toss). I'm using r/o water not the reservoir I'm drawing from is essentially open to the environment and I think the contamination could be coming from there. I have a submersible UV sterilizer but I think next try I am going to use bottled distilled water.

That recipe came through really weird! Casing was: 2 cups spagnum moss 1 cup vermiculite 1 tablespoon hydrated lime 1 cup water

Here's today:

~40g dry is ~400g wet. It's pretty good harvest for one flush! Congrats on your very first successful grow 🥳

I usually use the same recipe for casing and it works good. Sometimes I add more water, depending on how dry the peat moss. Does your casing wet enough? If it's too dry you can mist the top layer.

I don't know why, but your casing looks like you added 2 cups of verm instead of 2 cups of sphagnum. Even though it's not a big deal. I hope it should be fine and we'll see new growth within the next few days ;-)

What do you mean about using r/o and distilled water? You can use filtered r/o or any unchlorinated drinking water for making substrates and for rehydration, no problem at all! You don't need sterile or distilled water for these purposes

the sphagnum i got was very coarse and I chopped it up, maybe that's why it looks that way?

With the water, i was just trying to determine where the mold was coming from. I maintain a pretty clean process but i guess it's not perfect.

Not much change so far except some very small caps around the edges.

I noticed that my cake was still pulled in (shrunk) around the edges. Maybe next time I should soak longer than 4hrs?

I'll take pics, tonight.

Shrink gap and new growth

No noticible change at this time. Some new mycelium growth around the edges not that's it.

I'm seeing pins forming but unfortunately only on the sides. Casing later too thick? it's barely covering, I'd say MAYBE 4-5MM, absolute max at points

Cake shrinks flush by flush. You can't avoid it and you don't really need it as it's absolutely fine.

Side pinning is also fine (see Side and bottom pinning). And your new shrooms look great 👍

However, I don't understand what's wrong with casing. Usually it works great. Maybe it's better to skip vermiculite at all next time

Also I'd mist the casing layer generously. Most likely it's too dry. Maybe will see some pins on the top after misting ;-)

If not, let the side pins grow, harvest them and rehydrate the cake again. Some casing substrate will come off. Don't add new casing layer next time, okay?

sounds good I'll give that a try. thanks.

I wonder if chopping the moss up changed something? The moss I purchased came in a highly compressed brick and I had to hydrate it to break it up. After that it was very coarse so I chopped it up a bit to be closer to vermiculite consistency. I misted generously and so far no indication of growth on casing later but there's definitely lots of pins starting on the sides!

I don't think that chopped peat moss is the issue. Most likely it's moisture balance issue (too dry) or smth wrong with pH (if pH is over 9.0). Anyway, we have good growth from the sides and it's great! ;-)

The growth around the corners looks robust. It certainly looks like an issue with the casing layer. There's a lot of aborts in the one corner Seems it would be a good idea to harvest the small caps around the gap and rinse off the casing layer?

Started seeing deteriorating, slimy caps on the perimeter so i took the cake out. rinsed it off with distilled water and replaced in bin. You can see that after the first flush I definitely broke the cake in half! I may try adding ph'd casing layer with just moss. I have some prepped that I'm pasteurizing right now.

I've got several tubs I started at the same time because I wanted to be sure at least some were successful. My inspiration for the project is that I've got a very close friend in the very late stages of cancer and they stated that mushrooms were the only thing they'd had that made them feel better and made the increasingly debilitating symptoms, managable. The little it I harvested in this first flush has been very beneficial to them and couldn't have come at a better time I'm hoping to be and to supply as much as they possibly need at this time.